(3ft-3in wide). Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. Required fields are marked *. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Cut the shower tray to size. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. 120 sq feet including the floor. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Will add it in. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Yup! When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Maybe try another brand of thinset? Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. There are numerous ways to do this. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. It worked well - just like wallpapering. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Your email address will not be published. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. Think about movement. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . 3. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. . Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It only takes a minute to sign up. In . Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. Step 2: Determine the room's center. Following the instructions for the product being used and ensuring that all of the necessary steps are followed will help to ensure a successful installation. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. Thanks Paul! No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Welcome to the site. Step 4: Place the Tile. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. . Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). x 48 in. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. Let's start! In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? In my. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. Step 7: Cut the Tile. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. ;). How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. x 96 in. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. We sponge water onto the cement board. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Contact us: 888-472-4588 On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. How do I connect these two faces together? What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? It's still applied to cement board. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. We want that inside corner able to move. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. x 60 in. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. After installing your mud bed, make sure it is fully cured before applying Aquadefense. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. LONDON. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Thanks. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Yes. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal?

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